Google, Mozilla, and the debt-based economy
Thread 1:
From https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/932020295384178688:
"From me to you (I'm still bound by non-disclosure agreements with Mozilla), when we started the first Google/Firefox search deal in 2004, it was a better world. Pre-Doubleclick/YouTube Google, for one. Pre-programmatic ad tech too. Important not to equate threat from then to now."
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932456215048724481:
"There is a reason why I asked about your meeting with Google founders in 2005 around the time they acquired Urchin."
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932463189547278337:
"I mean, did you care about Google Analytics back then?"
From https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/932463682822422528:
"No, it was not tied into search ads or anything like what doubleclick brought to the table. We've been over this. That was a different era. Maybe you saw farther than I did -- if so, good for you!"
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932463850237997056:
"And do you think it is the founder's fault?"
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932470729144020992:
"AFAIK they were against popup ads in the early days."
From https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/932473969625595904:
"A friend said in 2003 that Sergey declared G would not acquire display ads & arb. Search vs. Display as that would be “evil”. But going public in 2004 inevitably meant growth, arb-opptys, monopoly power. Capitalism 101, I said recently.
Could search-only G have become a utility?"
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932474138450542592:
"Yea, part o the problem is that it took VC funding so it had to IPO or sell to exit."
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932475230748008448:
"I said before that VC might not quite be debt, but it is close enough for this discussion."
Thread 2:
From https://twitter.com/jwajsberg/status/932746958703349761 :
"Totally agree. I don't get why we don't do that now, in this time where we want to take risks again. Note we enabled tp by default in Firefox os..."
From https://twitter.com/andreasgal/status/932757853504339968 :
"Yup. I was able to sneak that past management"
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932760376294359040 :
"I wonder if you ever talked to Larry/Sergey."
From https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/932761563617837057:
"He didn’t - will you give it a rest?! It wasn’t that explicit back in day, and more recently it was Sundar’s people not Sergey or Larry!"
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932761950848557057:
"I wonder what the discussion would be like if they did."
Thread 3:
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932747119009546240 :
"Thinking about it, the Firefox/Google search deal was probably before or during the IPO and they were VC funded before that, right?"
From https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/932747375986163712 :
"It was pre-IPO. They were definitely thinking about that but they were also naive. Both founders said things like "we can defy public markets and take losses doing what is right". Lol."
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932747653963702273 :
"I am mainly talking about where the funding came from though."
From https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/932747825833680897 :
"It's not a simple Newtonian-physics (or fake economics based on same) problem."
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932747980272103424 :
"Yea, part of the problem is how the current debt based economy works in the first place."
A few more:
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/933611862268174336:
"Thinking about it, if Google showed no growth, it is not the end of the world but things like stock options would worth less, right?"
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/934647951518920705:
"It probably doesn't help that things like storage costs scale with the size of the index not the number of searches per day or the like."
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/934655735366959104:
"Imagine the search revenue don't grow but the size of the search index still grows."
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/934656082214993923:
"Though per-GB storage cost is cheaper today than it was last decade."
From https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/932020295384178688:
"From me to you (I'm still bound by non-disclosure agreements with Mozilla), when we started the first Google/Firefox search deal in 2004, it was a better world. Pre-Doubleclick/YouTube Google, for one. Pre-programmatic ad tech too. Important not to equate threat from then to now."
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932456215048724481:
"There is a reason why I asked about your meeting with Google founders in 2005 around the time they acquired Urchin."
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932463189547278337:
"I mean, did you care about Google Analytics back then?"
From https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/932463682822422528:
"No, it was not tied into search ads or anything like what doubleclick brought to the table. We've been over this. That was a different era. Maybe you saw farther than I did -- if so, good for you!"
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932463850237997056:
"And do you think it is the founder's fault?"
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932470729144020992:
"AFAIK they were against popup ads in the early days."
From https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/932473969625595904:
"A friend said in 2003 that Sergey declared G would not acquire display ads & arb. Search vs. Display as that would be “evil”. But going public in 2004 inevitably meant growth, arb-opptys, monopoly power. Capitalism 101, I said recently.
Could search-only G have become a utility?"
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932474138450542592:
"Yea, part o the problem is that it took VC funding so it had to IPO or sell to exit."
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932475230748008448:
"I said before that VC might not quite be debt, but it is close enough for this discussion."
Thread 2:
From https://twitter.com/jwajsberg/status/932746958703349761 :
"Totally agree. I don't get why we don't do that now, in this time where we want to take risks again. Note we enabled tp by default in Firefox os..."
From https://twitter.com/andreasgal/status/932757853504339968 :
"Yup. I was able to sneak that past management"
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932760376294359040 :
"I wonder if you ever talked to Larry/Sergey."
From https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/932761563617837057:
"He didn’t - will you give it a rest?! It wasn’t that explicit back in day, and more recently it was Sundar’s people not Sergey or Larry!"
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932761950848557057:
"I wonder what the discussion would be like if they did."
Thread 3:
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932747119009546240 :
"Thinking about it, the Firefox/Google search deal was probably before or during the IPO and they were VC funded before that, right?"
From https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/932747375986163712 :
"It was pre-IPO. They were definitely thinking about that but they were also naive. Both founders said things like "we can defy public markets and take losses doing what is right". Lol."
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932747653963702273 :
"I am mainly talking about where the funding came from though."
From https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/932747825833680897 :
"It's not a simple Newtonian-physics (or fake economics based on same) problem."
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/932747980272103424 :
"Yea, part of the problem is how the current debt based economy works in the first place."
A few more:
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/933611862268174336:
"Thinking about it, if Google showed no growth, it is not the end of the world but things like stock options would worth less, right?"
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/934647951518920705:
"It probably doesn't help that things like storage costs scale with the size of the index not the number of searches per day or the like."
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/934655735366959104:
"Imagine the search revenue don't grow but the size of the search index still grows."
From https://twitter.com/yuhong2/status/934656082214993923:
"Though per-GB storage cost is cheaper today than it was last decade."
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